Where is the second bathroom? Why is the rear entrance in conjunction with the bedrooms? Are you sure that’s not bathroom space? I also suspect the second pantry across from the dining room is a guest bath as well.
John – please explain the configuration of the stairs. Where do they go? Are there two sets?
This is the plan as we received it. I agree that the space beside the front entry looks like a guest bathroom and I am also not sure where the family bathroom is. Although we re-draw the plans used in these exercises we never modify them in any way. The original doesn’t show any of the bathrooms being discussed, or the laundry for that matter.
I used the plan, and left these issues unmentioned, because I wanted to see if and when it was noticed by the group. It does illuminate a problem with cookie cutter houses that we have not yet come across – the cavalier nature with which the house plans are sometimes drawn.
As I understand it, the stairs go up to a small dormered space within the roof. That is why there is a door from the ‘laundry’.
Assuming that the bathrooms are as indicated on Paul’s plan, my comments would include the following:
1) Decent front porch/entry, but the foyer is too large, the front hall closet is too small and there is hardly any place for a front hall table, except maybe in the middle of the foyer. I also don’t like the fact that you would be able to see into the master bedroom from the front foyer.
2) Speaking of the master bedroom, it is too large (only exceeded in size by the family room) and, despite being by itself on the west side of the house, does not have enough privacy. In addition to being able to see into it from the front foyer, you would also be able to see into it from the family room unless the window coverings were kept closed.
3) The master ensuite is also poorly designed, as it has 2 tiny vanities, 2 separate wet zones and must be walked through to get to the closet. I would rather see the ensuite and closet reversed, so that you walk past the closet(s) to get to the ensuite, which would also allow you to have a window facing the street instead of a blank wall (I hate having a blank wall on the front of a house). If for some reason the ensuite had to stay where it is, then the shower should have been put on the west wall next to the tub and the east wall should have been one large vanity. This would have had the added benefit of making room for a larger front hall closet.
4) The dining room seems a bit small and the columns surrounding it would make it difficult to expand a table to accommodate larger family dinners or dinner parties.
5) The kitchen may be a bit dark unless it has a skylight or solatube in its ceiling (which may not be possible if there is a dormered space above it). Also, the work triangle is too large — I would have preferred a large flat rectangular island instead of the angled dual-height counter. The kitchen would also be a bit of a traffic zone for people going to or from the laundry room (which is a long way from the master bedroom) and the garage (which entry has no place for coats and shoes).
6) The family room is too large to furnish as a single sitting area, so I suspect the intention was to use the very nice area by the corner windows as a breakfast nook. This would still leave a large amount of wasted space between the breakfast nook and the dining room, and hmmm, I wonder if John might have something to say about the location of the fireplace ;-)
7) Bedroom 2 has its own ensuite, but both it and Bedroom 3 have tiny windows facing the side yard and little privacy from the family room/kitchen. Bedroom 4 has more privacy, a bigger window with a view into the back yard and good access to the back door for those occasional clandestine late-night rendevous.
hahaha! to Doug Roberts’ remark about bedroom #4. It’s nice to have some separation between master bedroom and children’s bedrooms, but I would not want this arrangement with teenagers in the house. So that’s my #3 of the 3 things wrong with this house.
#2 is the lack of privacy because of the connection of the master bedroom and the family room via the deck. I had this arrangement once and vowed never again. I will leave the lurid details to your own imaginations.
#1 are the vestigial remains of a by-gone era of formal living and dining rooms, which here are opened up somewhat to accord with contemporary trends, but still serve to simply duplicate space.
What’s Wrong With This Plan? No bathrooms labelled except for master ensuite. No furniture placement shown, but the CARS are shown in the garage–kind of shows the priority for the automobile.
My three picks for problems:
3. Bad bathroom placement, if in fact the half bath is across from the dining room, the main bath is entered through the second bedroom, and, as Doug already described above, the poor layout of the ensuite.
2. Bad entry to back yard down a long hall beside bedrooms (how disconnected do the parents want to be from their kids anyway?).
1. Too many angles which create too many halls and a ridiculous entry foyer with its miniscule closet, while the main living spaces look like “islands” separated by the hallway “inlets.”
Here’s my three. Its tough to narrow it down:
1 – the formal dinning room completely breaks the flow. Its like a slalom course to the family room, and also makes this space awkward to furnish. And how can there be a wwwth exercise without a corner fireplace!
2 – the master bedroom, ensuite, wardrobe is a big fail. Doug Roberts, that was a good rundown.
3 – the formal living area will never be used. Its right there at the eneterence but seems so isolated from the rest of the house. Theres a lot of wasted space in this house, this is a whole room.
For the stairs, I think its upstairs from the kids hall, and then downstairs from the laundry/pantry/hidden dungeon off the kitchen. To much is left to the imagination in this plan. But judging by what they choose to show, the missing pieces have to be pretty terrible…
JOHN BROWN is the founder of Slow Home. He is a registered architect and Professor of Architecture at the University of Calgary. Mr. Brown is also a principal in Housebrand, a vertically integrated residential architecture firm in Calgary, Canada.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:10 am
Where is the second bathroom? Why is the rear entrance in conjunction with the bedrooms? Are you sure that’s not bathroom space? I also suspect the second pantry across from the dining room is a guest bath as well.
John – please explain the configuration of the stairs. Where do they go? Are there two sets?
July 6th, 2009 at 6:53 am
July 6th, 2009 at 7:12 am
Hi James and Brad,
Good questions.
This is the plan as we received it. I agree that the space beside the front entry looks like a guest bathroom and I am also not sure where the family bathroom is. Although we re-draw the plans used in these exercises we never modify them in any way. The original doesn’t show any of the bathrooms being discussed, or the laundry for that matter.
I used the plan, and left these issues unmentioned, because I wanted to see if and when it was noticed by the group. It does illuminate a problem with cookie cutter houses that we have not yet come across – the cavalier nature with which the house plans are sometimes drawn.
As I understand it, the stairs go up to a small dormered space within the roof. That is why there is a door from the ‘laundry’.
July 6th, 2009 at 9:04 am
July 6th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Assuming that the bathrooms are as indicated on Paul’s plan, my comments would include the following:
1) Decent front porch/entry, but the foyer is too large, the front hall closet is too small and there is hardly any place for a front hall table, except maybe in the middle of the foyer. I also don’t like the fact that you would be able to see into the master bedroom from the front foyer.
2) Speaking of the master bedroom, it is too large (only exceeded in size by the family room) and, despite being by itself on the west side of the house, does not have enough privacy. In addition to being able to see into it from the front foyer, you would also be able to see into it from the family room unless the window coverings were kept closed.
3) The master ensuite is also poorly designed, as it has 2 tiny vanities, 2 separate wet zones and must be walked through to get to the closet. I would rather see the ensuite and closet reversed, so that you walk past the closet(s) to get to the ensuite, which would also allow you to have a window facing the street instead of a blank wall (I hate having a blank wall on the front of a house). If for some reason the ensuite had to stay where it is, then the shower should have been put on the west wall next to the tub and the east wall should have been one large vanity. This would have had the added benefit of making room for a larger front hall closet.
4) The dining room seems a bit small and the columns surrounding it would make it difficult to expand a table to accommodate larger family dinners or dinner parties.
5) The kitchen may be a bit dark unless it has a skylight or solatube in its ceiling (which may not be possible if there is a dormered space above it). Also, the work triangle is too large — I would have preferred a large flat rectangular island instead of the angled dual-height counter. The kitchen would also be a bit of a traffic zone for people going to or from the laundry room (which is a long way from the master bedroom) and the garage (which entry has no place for coats and shoes).
6) The family room is too large to furnish as a single sitting area, so I suspect the intention was to use the very nice area by the corner windows as a breakfast nook. This would still leave a large amount of wasted space between the breakfast nook and the dining room, and hmmm, I wonder if John might have something to say about the location of the fireplace ;-)
7) Bedroom 2 has its own ensuite, but both it and Bedroom 3 have tiny windows facing the side yard and little privacy from the family room/kitchen. Bedroom 4 has more privacy, a bigger window with a view into the back yard and good access to the back door for those occasional clandestine late-night rendevous.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
hahaha! to Doug Roberts’ remark about bedroom #4. It’s nice to have some separation between master bedroom and children’s bedrooms, but I would not want this arrangement with teenagers in the house. So that’s my #3 of the 3 things wrong with this house.
#2 is the lack of privacy because of the connection of the master bedroom and the family room via the deck. I had this arrangement once and vowed never again. I will leave the lurid details to your own imaginations.
#1 are the vestigial remains of a by-gone era of formal living and dining rooms, which here are opened up somewhat to accord with contemporary trends, but still serve to simply duplicate space.
Much goes without comment–all the garages, etc.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
What’s Wrong With This Plan? No bathrooms labelled except for master ensuite. No furniture placement shown, but the CARS are shown in the garage–kind of shows the priority for the automobile.
My three picks for problems:
3. Bad bathroom placement, if in fact the half bath is across from the dining room, the main bath is entered through the second bedroom, and, as Doug already described above, the poor layout of the ensuite.
2. Bad entry to back yard down a long hall beside bedrooms (how disconnected do the parents want to be from their kids anyway?).
1. Too many angles which create too many halls and a ridiculous entry foyer with its miniscule closet, while the main living spaces look like “islands” separated by the hallway “inlets.”
July 6th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
July 6th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
Here’s my three. Its tough to narrow it down:
1 – the formal dinning room completely breaks the flow. Its like a slalom course to the family room, and also makes this space awkward to furnish. And how can there be a wwwth exercise without a corner fireplace!
2 – the master bedroom, ensuite, wardrobe is a big fail. Doug Roberts, that was a good rundown.
3 – the formal living area will never be used. Its right there at the eneterence but seems so isolated from the rest of the house. Theres a lot of wasted space in this house, this is a whole room.
For the stairs, I think its upstairs from the kids hall, and then downstairs from the laundry/pantry/hidden dungeon off the kitchen. To much is left to the imagination in this plan. But judging by what they choose to show, the missing pieces have to be pretty terrible…